“Brainwashing (also known as thought reform or re-education) consists of any effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in a person — beliefs sometimes unwelcome or in conflict with the person’s prior beliefs and knowledge.[1] Motives for brainwashing may include the aim of affecting that individual’s value system and subsequent thought-patterns and behaviors.”

This is quoted directly from Wikipedia.

This is what I do every Sunday. And when necessary I use torture (i.e. dodgeballs to the head, old graham crackers, etc.) and coercion (“I’ll page your mom and dad if you do that again”) and even water-boarding (though I try to limit this). Let me know your thoughts all. Good conversations.

I agree with you Henry that we can’t just take others stuff and take it into the pulpit and/or Sunday School room. But as I was told in Bible College the secret to successful ministry is “Beg, Borrow, and Steal.” In other words, don’t reinvent the wheel, make the wheel better and make it do what you want it to.

The spectrum can range anywhere from baptism seen as purely a symbol to baptism as an integral part of salvation. Who is more right than the other is not the issue. The issue is that you understand what your faith tradition believes and craft guidlines/procedures that are in accordance with those. Even more importantly, though, is that children and families understand what it means to follow Christ and continue in that (and there we have even more theological discussions!!)

I think one thing to take away from this discussion is that you cannot take what one church does and duplicate it at your church, especially when it comes to things like baptism, communion, salvation presentations, etc.

Henry Zonios last blog post..“Why?” That is the Question!

I wrestle with the idea of whether a kid who’s in 3rd, 4th, or even 5th grade sometimes is a good candidate for baptism. I know the stats from Barna about kids receiving Christ, but at the same time, kids are gullible and you can get them to believe anything. And in some ways our job is to brainwash them. So of course when they have the opportunity to become a Christian, many will because their mental faculties are not developed to the extent of a teenager or an adult. I truly believe we are telling them the truth, and I have no issue brainwashing them, but at the same time, I almost feel it’s appropriate to push the date of their baptism forward simply because I want them to have personal ownership and understanding of what it is exactly that they are doing.

Don’t get me wrong, I think kids need to have the opportunity to hear the gospel and to place faith in Christ, but for me in my tradition (and I believe in Scripture), baptism is more than just a “symbol” or an outward expression or whatever. I think Scripture teaches that whatever it is, something truly happens at baptism (a death to use Paul). Something happens in the heart, in the soul, that doesn’t happen at any other time. So if I say I believe that and I have kids who are now in their teens who were baptized when they were 8, 9, 10, 11 years old say, “I want to be re-baptized because I didn’t understand what it was about” I guess I have to question whether this is an isolate case and they are alone (they are not of course), or whether they didn’t have an adult in their life (parent or otherwise) who could explain it on their level, or they were just too yound period and should have been encouraged to wait.

Maybe some of this confusion stems from the understanding of baptism I have but maybe this is more than that. I don’t know. This is something I’m currently researching, looking at stages of faith, and some other books on children and spirituality. If you’ve got any book/study tool recommendations shoot them my way.

So, these words we’re comforting. The baptism class doesn’t have to be a mandatory thing in all cases. But I don’t believe that Acts 2 supports most of these kids in this situation. So, I’m still wresting.

“When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.”

The interesting thing about this passage is that the people hearing this had NO idea what it was going to mean for them to follow Christ and make him their Savior. Their whole idea of what “Savior” meant was skewed. They thought it was primarily military/political not spiritual. Yet, when they asked Peter what they should do, he said get baptized. The early church hadn’t even worked out the doctrines of salvation, christology, theology, etc. All they new was that the Holy Spirit had convicted them in their hearts and they needed to do something.

So 3000 people who didn’t really “get it” let alone “understand it” were baptized. It was the responsibility of the early church to help them work out their salvation and teach them what that decision really meant, AFTER they were already baptized. They didn’t go through a class, they weren’t required to answer questions or anything like that. Rather, if they were convicted by the Holy Spirit after having heard the Gospel preached, they were baptized.

Don’t get me wrong, classes are great. I am working on preparing materials for just such a class. But these first Christians (and the rest of the Baptism stories in Acts) were not accompanied by a great deal of teaching (that we know of). So, I think it’s perfectly acceptable (maybe not preferable though) to allow kids who haven’t gone through a class to be baptized. You can make the class a requirement, but they just do it on the other side of the water. I think we have precedent in Acts for such a practice. What do you think?

For me the issue isn’t the process, but rather a desire to make sure each person (kid, in this case because it’s my responsibility) has an adequate understanding of what’s happening. And with kids, that understanding can vary from kid to kid between many different ages…

Kenny -I totally understand what your doing, and why it’s being done. At this point I’d probably do the same thing, and I think you’re right about there needing to be a balance in their somewhere.

Now if only parents were mature enough believers to gauge these issues about their kids all by themselves…

jonathans last blog post..Wacky Warnings