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	<title>Comments on: The elementary attrition</title>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://childrensministryonline.com/elementary/the-elementary-attrition/comment-page-1/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://childrensministryonline.com/blog/fresh-ideas/the-elementary-attrition/#comment-382</guid>
		<description>As a parent, I have certainly seen this. I have always noticed that &quot;childrens church&quot; is great from about K -4th grade. Then around 5th grade (I have seen this first hand with my oldest daughter) they start to feel that they are &quot;too old&quot; for it and want to consider the regular church. I have also noticed that she has more of an interest in being &quot;involved&quot; with ministry. She wants to be active in the church, and that&#039;s a great thing. I think the problem is they may not be old enough, and they can become discouraged. I think participation in what&#039;s going on really increases commitment and focus. They can have an opportunity to learn early on that it&#039;s better to give than to receive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a parent, I have certainly seen this. I have always noticed that &#8220;childrens church&#8221; is great from about K -4th grade. Then around 5th grade (I have seen this first hand with my oldest daughter) they start to feel that they are &#8220;too old&#8221; for it and want to consider the regular church. I have also noticed that she has more of an interest in being &#8220;involved&#8221; with ministry. She wants to be active in the church, and that&#8217;s a great thing. I think the problem is they may not be old enough, and they can become discouraged. I think participation in what&#8217;s going on really increases commitment and focus. They can have an opportunity to learn early on that it&#8217;s better to give than to receive.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://childrensministryonline.com/elementary/the-elementary-attrition/comment-page-1/#comment-380</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 03:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://childrensministryonline.com/blog/fresh-ideas/the-elementary-attrition/#comment-380</guid>
		<description>We see it somewhat. I do notice a huge difference in our main campus that is bigger and and focused programing that overlaps into the youth ministry.

We don&#039;t have a graduation but a ministry overlap with the youth group. As a result we have seen a dramatic drop in our elementary attrition.

In our main campus - Avg. K-4th attendance 70
                                Avg. 5-7th attendance 35

In our other campus - 1-4 attendance 30
                                5-6th attendance 10

Where I am at a loss is what to do with the older kids when you don&#039;t have enough for their own environment. I find it much more difficult to maintain relevance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We see it somewhat. I do notice a huge difference in our main campus that is bigger and and focused programing that overlaps into the youth ministry.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t have a graduation but a ministry overlap with the youth group. As a result we have seen a dramatic drop in our elementary attrition.</p>
<p>In our main campus &#8211; Avg. K-4th attendance 70<br />
                                Avg. 5-7th attendance 35</p>
<p>In our other campus &#8211; 1-4 attendance 30<br />
                                5-6th attendance 10</p>
<p>Where I am at a loss is what to do with the older kids when you don&#8217;t have enough for their own environment. I find it much more difficult to maintain relevance.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Kummer</title>
		<link>http://childrensministryonline.com/elementary/the-elementary-attrition/comment-page-1/#comment-381</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Kummer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://childrensministryonline.com/blog/fresh-ideas/the-elementary-attrition/#comment-381</guid>
		<description>I agree with Jonathan. Kids increasingly are given a choice about church attendance, or at least Sunday school &amp; Weds night. So, as they move into upper elementary it becomes a free market where church programs are actually competing against their other interests.

This leaves a problem for the children&#039;s ministry: Do we alter our programs to boost attendance, or stick with what we believe the kids need most, or try to find the middle ground.

At our church we&#039;ve switched the Fall semester of Weds night entirely to Upward Soccer. It&#039;s a program that brings in many unchurched families and kid beg to play. The downside is that we have fewer minutes overall to share the Gospel, but its with a larger group. And we large numbers of upper elementary kids.

Thanks for posting about this article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Jonathan. Kids increasingly are given a choice about church attendance, or at least Sunday school &amp; Weds night. So, as they move into upper elementary it becomes a free market where church programs are actually competing against their other interests.</p>
<p>This leaves a problem for the children&#8217;s ministry: Do we alter our programs to boost attendance, or stick with what we believe the kids need most, or try to find the middle ground.</p>
<p>At our church we&#8217;ve switched the Fall semester of Weds night entirely to Upward Soccer. It&#8217;s a program that brings in many unchurched families and kid beg to play. The downside is that we have fewer minutes overall to share the Gospel, but its with a larger group. And we large numbers of upper elementary kids.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting about this article.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://childrensministryonline.com/elementary/the-elementary-attrition/comment-page-1/#comment-378</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://childrensministryonline.com/blog/fresh-ideas/the-elementary-attrition/#comment-378</guid>
		<description>same problem here.  We&#039;ve found going to a small group format has helped curb this a little.  We have our Jr.High/Middle school leaders get involved in the 5th grade small groups for 3 weeks to start relationships..

I agree with most obvious reasons why this happens; but it&#039;s also on the parents.  Most parent make their Kindergartner attend, but give 3rd-5th graders a choice.  Don&#039;t you see this as well?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>same problem here.  We&#8217;ve found going to a small group format has helped curb this a little.  We have our Jr.High/Middle school leaders get involved in the 5th grade small groups for 3 weeks to start relationships..</p>
<p>I agree with most obvious reasons why this happens; but it&#8217;s also on the parents.  Most parent make their Kindergartner attend, but give 3rd-5th graders a choice.  Don&#8217;t you see this as well?</p>
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		<title>By: Donna Terrell</title>
		<link>http://childrensministryonline.com/elementary/the-elementary-attrition/comment-page-1/#comment-379</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna Terrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://childrensministryonline.com/blog/fresh-ideas/the-elementary-attrition/#comment-379</guid>
		<description>Yes! We have had the same problem.  We have made a few changes and have seen some very encouraging results.
1.  We changed the curriculum for our Bible study hour from LifeWay to Grapple.  Grapple is much more relevant and engaging.  That helped.
2.  We changed the way we structure Bible study for our 4/5th graders to put a greater emphasis on small groups.
3.  We began a special ministry to allow the 4th and 5th graders to serve.  Instead of &quot;attending&quot; children&#039;s church or big church (some terms never die...) they now serve as &quot;C.A.S.T. Members&quot; for children&#039;s church.  They run our tech, lead our worship, interact with the &quot;little kids&quot; using small hand puppets, etc.  I use the &quot;practice&quot; time with the CAST kids as another discipleship time.  Not all are involved, but it has created great enthusiasm across the board.
4.  Through the Bible Study class, we have also created more &quot;special events&quot; that are kind of &quot;youth-y&quot; for the 4th and 5th graders like a lock in, scavenger hunt, Nerf Night, etc.

We were losing them around 4th grade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes! We have had the same problem.  We have made a few changes and have seen some very encouraging results.<br />
1.  We changed the curriculum for our Bible study hour from LifeWay to Grapple.  Grapple is much more relevant and engaging.  That helped.<br />
2.  We changed the way we structure Bible study for our 4/5th graders to put a greater emphasis on small groups.<br />
3.  We began a special ministry to allow the 4th and 5th graders to serve.  Instead of &#8220;attending&#8221; children&#8217;s church or big church (some terms never die&#8230;) they now serve as &#8220;C.A.S.T. Members&#8221; for children&#8217;s church.  They run our tech, lead our worship, interact with the &#8220;little kids&#8221; using small hand puppets, etc.  I use the &#8220;practice&#8221; time with the CAST kids as another discipleship time.  Not all are involved, but it has created great enthusiasm across the board.<br />
4.  Through the Bible Study class, we have also created more &#8220;special events&#8221; that are kind of &#8220;youth-y&#8221; for the 4th and 5th graders like a lock in, scavenger hunt, Nerf Night, etc.</p>
<p>We were losing them around 4th grade.</p>
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