I’ve got a bone to pick with Sunday School. I don’t like it and I wont do it. Sunday School was a big reason why I left one of the churches I was at. Before you get mad at me, please hear me out.
It’s not that I think small groups is better than Sunday School, it’s bigger than that. It’s not about what you call it. It’s about what it is. I believe that you have the greatest impact when you have an adult leader who is responsible for no more than 10-12 kids. That’s a small group. From my experience at more than one church, Sunday School looks a lot more like a school setting with 15-25 kids per teacher. That’s not a small group and it’s too hard for a leader to effectively shepherd that many kids. Call it what you want, small groups or Sunday school, if you’re giving your leaders more than 10-12 kids, you’re not going to have the impact you need to have.
Can Sunday School be successful? Absolutely. Again, who cares what you call it. If you can get the kids into groups of 10-12 with a qualified leader over each age group, then you can amazing success! You may just have less kids in each classroom or let a classroom be made up of two or three small groups.
See, it’s not about small groups (as a program) being better than Sunday School (as a program) but it’s more the way it is implemented. If you can create groups of 10-12 kids, you can call it God’s Glorious Bible Hour and you’ll see success. Well, maybe not with a name like that.
However, I do have a bone to pick with Sunday School but it doesn’t have anything to do with the kids. Churches who have Sunday School almost always include Sunday School for adults. This is the reason most kid’s Sunday Schools have 25 kids with one teacher. All the other people who should be working with the kids are sitting in a Sunday School class of their own. The Children’s Ministry is in direct competition with adult Sunday School. This is a no-win situation for the adults or the kids. In order to get a leader, they have to be willing to give up their service or give up their community. Seriously a church shouldn’t put people in that kind of position, but so many do.
So, that’s my rant. This is why I’m a big believer in small groups. If you’re at a church that does Sunday School, do everything you can to get those classes smaller. It will take creativity and a lot more work, but to have the impact, it’s what you’ll have to do.
Would you write up this letter to my pastor?
I am with you..we do Sunday School. We are trying to convince the pastor to start small groups and he sees value in them so long as they do not “compete” with Sunday School. He says that Sunday School is where people really learn the Bible and Small groups are just for fellowship. How do you change that mindset?
Bravo! Well said. I 100% agree. I would even go a step further and say no more than 10 kids for the younger grades.
Keep saying this, maybe it will finally get heard. We do have adult small groups at our church and it has been an up and down road.
Thank you again!
Sandy Roderys last blog post..ServeKC June 20
Brandon, it’s vision. Your pastor sees small groups as being social. Who says they have to be social. Why, really? Does environment really dictate whether the Bible is taught best or whether it’s only social? It think that’s pre-conceived notions. Before Gateway, I would say that most of my small group experience were more-socially related than Sunday School, but that was kind of the DNA of the church. At Gateway, small groups are intense. They’re focused on life-change. Though the small groups my and my wife are a part of, we’re becoming the best versions of ourselves. In my small group, we’re reading through the Bible in a year and each week for 45 minutes we’re discussing what we’re learning and how the Bible is speaking to us. Then we spend another 45 minutes sharing, challenging and confessing. There are other small groups that are more Bible Education focused and there are GREAT DVD resources that groups can use to learn the Bible.
Here’s the bigger issue if you ask me. Your pastor is concerned that Small Groups are competing with Sunday School. Is he not concerned that Sunday School is competing with the kids? It’s a big shift in thinking and many churches can’t make this shift… but perhaps some of these small groups can experiment with a Bible heavy model to scratch that itch.
I’ve got more to say about small groups tomorrow… and Thursday. Stay tuned.
So, churches that have Sunday School (or small groups or whatever you want to call it) for kids during church service aren’t competing with adult Sunday School classes. Instead they are competing with adult church service?
Not if a church has two services. Many churches, even church plants, recognize this and will launch two services so that people can serve at one and attend the other. Some churches have only one service and that’s really challenging for the Children’s Ministry. Show me a church with only one service and I’ll show you a struggling Children’s Ministry. It isn’t always the case, but sometimes tends to be.
I did attend a church that had two services that sandwiched a Sunday School hour. That wasn’t very much help either as if someone was committed to serving, attending and being in a Sunday School, they were there from 9:00 AM until 12:30 PM.
Kenny,
I wonder how many people have taken the time to find out where Sunday school comes from. It amazes me how SS has become so entrenched in church culture. SS was developed to address a specific need in a specific time and place. It may still be appropriate in certain circumstances, but not in many (if not most) of the churches where it’s applied. Then, like you say, it causes competing systems (SS vs. kids programs), and follows in what I tend to think is a flawed model of education anyway, the classroom setting (yuck!).
Dude, I could rant on this all day. Thanks for putting it out there!
Daves last blog post..Monday Morning Hangover
I have an issue with the assumption that all the adults in Sunday school are potential children’s leaders. Say it ain’t so!! Just because they love studying the Bible does not mean they relate well to the children. I’m sure you didn’t mean that but that’s the chord it struck with me when I read it.
I agree. Adults could have a limited amt if time such as a year or less and then other adults could take over for a time. I helped with Sunday school for over 10 years and wanted to go to adult Sunday school but there was no one to take my place. I think Children’s Sunday school and adult Sunday school is very important. If people in the church care enough it can be worked out. I enjoy and learn as much in the adult Sunday school class as I do in church.
I think that Sunday School was a powerful tool in it’s time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_school
The horse and buggy was a powerful tool in it’s time too.
We have to adapt. Principles remain, strategies change.
Liz, you know what they say about assumptions… 🙂
There are many adults I wouldn’t even allow in our kids building. They have to be a fit. However, part of my job as a Children’s Pastor is to seek out those adults who’ve never service in Kids Ministry but would be perfect Kids Ministry volunteers. I don’t need a competing adult Sunday School class to be a barrier. We have three services on Sunday morning, so we do have the luxury plugging volunteers in where we need them and they usually plan the service they attend around that.
My church does Sunday School and we strive to keep classes small (15 kids, 2 adults on average). Sunday School has been very effective for us – in bringing in families and making them a part of the church family.
Adult Sunday School–done appropriately–can help rather than compete with kids ministry. Adult leaders should be identifying people in their classes who have gifts that fit with kids ministry (or student ministry or whatever) and lead those people into service. Our church doesn’t always do this well, but we’re learning.
Any ministry that just packs kids into a room and doesn’t focus on adults building relationships with kids will not be effective.
Good thoughts Scott. You hit on a key phrase. “Adult Sunday School-done appropriately- can help…”
You’re absolutely right. Unfortunately, I think too few churches have adult and children’s Sunday School programs that play nice like this.
“Unfortunately, I think too few churches have adult and children’s Sunday School programs that play nice like this.”
THAT’s what makes me rant! I wish I knew how to change this.
Kenny maybe you can touch on why churches shouldn’t have choirs. Same reason every good children’s worker for some reason can sing, think they can sing, or want to sing. Hate church choir I fight them every time they are mentioned in our staff meetings.
Great posts this week. I too am a huge small group fan. We have been doing them for years and love them.
Sams last blog post..Why I love my church.
Hmmm, I see another blog post coming…
Gee, Kenny,
This all sounds soooo familiar…hmmm…can’t figure out why :O)
I couldn’t agree more. This has been on my heart for about a year, and is making me crazy!!!
Thanks for calling it out.
sher
Sunday School was an institution growing up. I remember being 3 begging to go to glorious Sunday School, but sitting on a cold folding chair and looking at the bland, ugly scene-o-graph, I was burnt out the first day. I’m dedicated to not allowing SS to be boring by somehow making the Word come alive no matter what age: “I was glad when they said unto me let us go to the house of the Lord,” should be a verse for children. That’s why this website is so important. Since being in a church plant after 25 years of doing old style church, we just offer children’s church for different age groups after music. Fortunately, we have dedicated workers willing to give up 1 or 2 of sermons/a month in order to serve. An issue I have with adult SS instead of small groups during the week is that many adults have a hard time with an hour of “school” with any brain energy left to take in a sermon after. Certainly, we lose most children by offering a whole morning of SS/Children’s Church of what may or may not be the best of teaching. Keep it simple saints!
We do not do adult Sunday School because we’d rather have them join a small group community, and not for socializing, but for intentional spiritual growth.
We do have a strong children’s program on Sunday morning, and we encourage volunteers to attend one/serve one, so that we get the volunteers we need and they make that transition away from just being a Sunday morning “tourist.”
However, as mentioned, the hard part is that this leaves many kids attending both services in the children’s ministry area while their parents volunteer. The older ones we begin encouraging to volunteer with younger kids, but I always have a handful that will be with us both services, don’t (or can’t) volunteer elsewhere, and will get bored with attending the same service a second time.
What types of activities has everyone found successful in giving these “repeat” kids something productive to experience during that second service that requires minimal additional space or volunteers?
Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!